Standards of dress

[Smellin Coffee]

This thread has taken a direction towards the "pants on women" discussion (which does fall into the topic).  Let's go back to the discussion of modesty which was brought up in several posts.  Several are saying that the modest apparel spoken of in Timothy has little to do with showing flesh and more to do with "gaudiness". 

With that in mind, what Scriptural guidelines do you follow when it come to dress?  Ladies, I'm sorry, but for the point of discussion let's focus on woman's dress.  Personally, I can't buy the "if it is appropriate for the activity, it is ok" thought pattern.  While I agree that if a young man is looking for the purpose of lusting it is a sin on his part.  On the other hand, if a high school or college gal is wearing (for sake of illustration) the "accepted" volleyball uniform it puts a temptation before a young man.  Is God honored with this type of attire?

What are your thoughts?

I believe it is all culturally relevant.

For example, wearing shoes in another's house in Japan can be a sign of disrespect. In our country, no problem (in most cases). In America in the 1700s, it was modest to wear floor-length dresses but very low-cut showing cleavage. 1950's knee-length dresses would have been be considered as indecent two hundred years before. In Africa, it is very culturally accepted for women to have their heads shorn. In other cultures, it might be disrespectful.

Men can be tempted to lust regardless of what a woman wears because it is a heart issue on his part. Is God honored for a man to lust after a pretty woman while she is singing a special in church, dressed modestly?

Does the vehicle we drive bring honor or dishonor to God? Will it cause another driver to covet my vehicle?

And yes, I believe God CAN be honored with a girl wearing a volleyball uniform and He can also be dishonored by the same girl, depending on her behavior.

 

[Mathew Ward]

This thread has taken a direction towards the "pants on women" discussion (which does fall into the topic).  Let's go back to the discussion of modesty which was brought up in several posts.  Several are saying that the modest apparel spoken of in Timothy has little to do with showing flesh and more to do with "gaudiness". 

With that in mind, what Scriptural guidelines do you follow when it come to dress?  Ladies, I'm sorry, but for the point of discussion let's focus on woman's dress.  Personally, I can't buy the "if it is appropriate for the activity, it is ok" thought pattern.  While I agree that if a young man is looking for the purpose of lusting it is a sin on his part.  On the other hand, if a high school or college gal is wearing (for sake of illustration) the "accepted" volleyball uniform it puts a temptation before a young man.  Is God honored with this type of attire?

What are your thoughts?

So let me get this straight (said in my Morgan Freeman voice).

We have a Christian girl who is going to a public high school, for the sake of being used of God to see others come to Christ. She joins the volleyball team in order to connect with others and to be used of God and you are worried that her shorts may be too short or too tight?

Good luck with that.

I think I'll let God direct her heart and her parents mold her life as they see best.


We have some older girls in the Children's Home that the Pharisee's don't like the way they dress. The problem is that not 1 time have they ever come out to the home to spend time with these girls. Not one time have invested into their relationship with Christ, but if the dress is too short they are all over that like white on rice. Sadly they haven't even offered to take them shopping to buy them clothes.

So we bought them some PC clothing. No, not politically correct but Phariseeical Clothing for them to wear to church to appease the Pharisees. The Pharisees are happy because the girls now look good on the outside. Too bad they can't see the damage they are causing on the inside to these girls. Not only can they not see it, but they wouldn't care if they could, in my opinion.

 

[RAIDER]

This thread has taken a direction towards the "pants on women" discussion (which does fall into the topic).  Let's go back to the discussion of modesty which was brought up in several posts.  Several are saying that the modest apparel spoken of in Timothy has little to do with showing flesh and more to do with "gaudiness". 

With that in mind, what Scriptural guidelines do you follow when it come to dress?  Ladies, I'm sorry, but for the point of discussion let's focus on woman's dress.  Personally, I can't buy the "if it is appropriate for the activity, it is ok" thought pattern.  While I agree that if a young man is looking for the purpose of lusting it is a sin on his part.  On the other hand, if a high school or college gal is wearing (for sake of illustration) the "accepted" volleyball uniform it puts a temptation before a young man.  Is God honored with this type of attire?

What are your thoughts?

So let me get this straight (said in my Morgan Freeman voice).

We have a Christian girl who is going to a public high school, for the sake of being used of God to see others come to Christ. She joins the volleyball team in order to connect with others and to be used of God and you are worried that her shorts may be too short or too tight?

Good luck with that.

So it is ok for a gal to wear a garment that shows her complete leg, as well as the form of her rear and crotch?  She also wears a very tight top that shows her form with little left to the imagination.  Meanwhile, while wearing this clothing she bends over, runs, and jumps in front of a gym full of young men.  You actually don't have any problem with this because she wants to be used of Christ?

 

[RAIDER]

I am kind of anxious to see what the ladies have to say.  I understand that we men are pigs. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

This thread has taken a direction towards the "pants on women" discussion (which does fall into the topic).  Let's go back to the discussion of modesty which was brought up in several posts.  Several are saying that the modest apparel spoken of in Timothy has little to do with showing flesh and more to do with "gaudiness". 

With that in mind, what Scriptural guidelines do you follow when it come to dress?  Ladies, I'm sorry, but for the point of discussion let's focus on woman's dress.  Personally, I can't buy the "if it is appropriate for the activity, it is ok" thought pattern.  While I agree that if a young man is looking for the purpose of lusting it is a sin on his part.  On the other hand, if a high school or college gal is wearing (for sake of illustration) the "accepted" volleyball uniform it puts a temptation before a young man.  Is God honored with this type of attire?

What are your thoughts?

So let me get this straight (said in my Morgan Freeman voice).

We have a Christian girl who is going to a public high school, for the sake of being used of God to see others come to Christ. She joins the volleyball team in order to connect with others and to be used of God and you are worried that her shorts may be too short or too tight?

Good luck with that.

So it is ok for a gal to wear a garment that shows her complete leg, as well as the form of her rear and crotch?  She also wears a very tight top that shows her form with little left to the imagination.  Meanwhile, while wearing this clothing she bends over, runs, and jumps in front of a gym full of young men.  You actually don't have any problem with this because she wants to be used of Christ?

I don't want to type in my yelling voice but here goes anyway:

WHY ARE THESE YOUNG MEN LOOKING AT THESE GIRLS AS SEX OBJECTS????

Why aren't people harping on the guys who go to games for the explicit purpose of looking at girls?

 

[subllibrm]

<snip> Not only can they not see it, but they wouldn't care if they could, in my opinion.

BAM!!! This is the crux of the matter right here. Your opinion is right on the money.

 

[RAIDER]

I don't want to type in my yelling voice but here goes anyway:

WHY ARE THESE YOUNG MEN LOOKING AT THESE GIRLS AS SEX OBJECTS????

Why aren't people harping on the guys who go to games for the explicit purpose of looking at girls?

Because it is what UNSAVED young men do!  It is the NATURAL MAN.  I agree that the guys should be harped on.  I am not giving them a free pass.  That is not what I am saying at all.  Should young men not be told to be pure in thought and action?  Should young ladies not be told to not dress in an obvious fashion that tempts young men?

 

[RAIDER]

Watch t.v. commercials.  In many commercials watch what the gals are dressed like.  The advertisers know what they are doing.  A Godly man will turn away.  An ungodly man will watch and lust.  Are the gals suppose to go guilt free because men are not to look?

 

[rsc2a]

All woman should wear burkas and it's still their fault if the man has an Arabian Nights fetish.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I don't want to type in my yelling voice but here goes anyway:

WHY ARE THESE YOUNG MEN LOOKING AT THESE GIRLS AS SEX OBJECTS????

Why aren't people harping on the guys who go to games for the explicit purpose of looking at girls?

Because it is what UNSAVED young men do!  It is the NATURAL MAN.  I agree that the guys should be harped on.  I am not giving them a free pass.  That is not what I am saying at all.  Should young men not be told to be pure in thought and action?  Should young ladies not be told to not dress in an obvious fashion that tempts young men?

Friend, you need to break out of your Baptist Bubble.

In essence, there is more to see on their laptop computers and phones (I guess - I don't have an Internet phone) than what would be at the sporting event.

How many public school girls' sporting events have you gone to? Over the last several years, I have been to perhaps a hundred or so. As a general rule, guys don't go to girls' games. Generally, the lowest attended by guys are swimming and gymnastics meets, the sports that have even more so-called "immodest" uniforms. I'm sure there are always a couple but it is NOT the norm. Why? Because the girls are not acting in a provocative way at these events. Guys aren't going to see the girls gyrate and entice. I've heard preachers over the years continually put the blame on the girls and their attire and we ate it up, assuming they knew the hearts of these "unsaved" boys. But things generally are not how they were presented.

And it doesn't matter what the girls' wear. If guys are going to these things for the purpose of lust, they will do it regardless of what is worn by the athletes.



I realize we can agree to disagree.

 

[RAIDER]

All woman should wear burkas and it's still their fault if the man has an Arabian Nights fetish.

Once again, you add a new level of stupidity.

 

[rsc2a]

All woman should wear burkas and it's still their fault if the man has an Arabian Nights fetish.

Once again, you add a new level of stupidity.

Once again, you run to Law and away from grace. Jesus calls people like that hypocrites and white washed tombs. Paul says they will then be judged by their Law.

You want make a difference? Stop paying so much attention to clothing and start paying more to how you can help others who are broken and hurting.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Watch t.v. commercials.  In many commercials watch what the gals are dressed like.  The advertisers know what they are doing.  A Godly man will turn away.  An ungodly man will watch and lust.  Are the gals suppose to go guilt free because men are not to look?

And look at how their BEHAVIOR is, their body language. Sexism in commercials is intentional and it isn't just the attire attempting to tease.

Do most men have problems lusting when they show highlights of Olympic swimmers coming in and out of a pool? I have one friend who says it bothers him but in general, the response is, why would it be an issue?

Oh, I agree. For example, I won't watch Victoria Secret commercials and do turn away. But we know the intent. And yes, the girls SHOULD "go guilt free" when it comes to my opinion. It is between them and God. I am responsible for my own personal behavior.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

All woman should wear burkas and it's still their fault if the man has an Arabian Nights fetish.

Once again, you add a new level of stupidity.

Once again, you run to Law and away from grace. Jesus calls people like that hypocrites and white washed tombs. Paul says they will then be judged by their Law.

You want make a difference? Stop paying so much attention to clothing and start paying more to how you can help others who are broken and hurting.

Remember the story of the woman caught in adultery and brought to Jesus? She was caught "in the act". Granted this is speculation on my part but it seems to me that she was probably set up for the purpose of testing Jesus. I highly doubt she was told "go get dressed appropriately" before being dragged to see Him. She could have been naked or wrapped in a sheet or scantily clothed. She would have been brought before Jesus in full shame.

Nothing is mentioned about the attire and it was her sin of adultery which was forgiven. That is what love does, it sees beyond attire and body type and tries to see who is behind the eyes.

 

[RAIDER]

Watch t.v. commercials.  In many commercials watch what the gals are dressed like.  The advertisers know what they are doing.  A Godly man will turn away.  An ungodly man will watch and lust.  Are the gals suppose to go guilt free because men are not to look?

And look at how their BEHAVIOR is, their body language. Sexism in commercials is intentional and it isn't just the attire attempting to tease.

Do most men have problems lusting when they show highlights of Olympic swimmers coming in and out of a pool? I have one friend who says it bothers him but in general, the response is, why would it be an issue?

Oh, I agree. For example, I won't watch Victoria Secret commercials and do turn away. But we know the intent. And yes, the girls SHOULD "go guilt free" when it comes to my opinion. It is between them and God. I am responsible for my own personal behavior.

We will definitely agree to disagree on this one.  I am anxious to see what some of the gals have to say.  You may have a following. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Watch t.v. commercials.  In many commercials watch what the gals are dressed like.  The advertisers know what they are doing.  A Godly man will turn away.  An ungodly man will watch and lust.  Are the gals suppose to go guilt free because men are not to look?

And look at how their BEHAVIOR is, their body language. Sexism in commercials is intentional and it isn't just the attire attempting to tease.

Do most men have problems lusting when they show highlights of Olympic swimmers coming in and out of a pool? I have one friend who says it bothers him but in general, the response is, why would it be an issue?

Oh, I agree. For example, I won't watch Victoria Secret commercials and do turn away. But we know the intent. And yes, the girls SHOULD "go guilt free" when it comes to my opinion. It is between them and God. I am responsible for my own personal behavior.

We will definitely agree to disagree on this one.  I am anxious to see what some of the gals have to say.  You may have a following. 

"A following"? I DO share a birthday with Kevin Bacon though he is 8 years older...

 

[subllibrm]

I figure the more time you focus on it the more focused on it you will be.

 

[subllibrm]

Watch t.v. commercials.  In many commercials watch what the gals are dressed like.  The advertisers know what they are doing.  A Godly man will turn away.  An ungodly man will watch and lust.  Are the gals suppose to go guilt free because men are not to look?

And look at how their BEHAVIOR is, their body language. Sexism in commercials is intentional and it isn't just the attire attempting to tease.

Do most men have problems lusting when they show highlights of Olympic swimmers coming in and out of a pool? I have one friend who says it bothers him but in general, the response is, why would it be an issue?

Oh, I agree. For example, I won't watch Victoria Secret commercials and do turn away. But we know the intent. And yes, the girls SHOULD "go guilt free" when it comes to my opinion. It is between them and God. I am responsible for my own personal behavior.

We will definitely agree to disagree on this one.  I am anxious to see what some of the gals have to say.  You may have a following. 

"A following"? I DO share a birthday with Kevin Bacon though he is 8 years older...

Six degrees of Kevin Bacon's birthday!

 

[RAIDER]

All woman should wear burkas and it's still their fault if the man has an Arabian Nights fetish.

Once again, you add a new level of stupidity.

Once again, you run to Law and away from grace. Jesus calls people like that hypocrites and white washed tombs. Paul says they will then be judged by their Law.

You want make a difference? Stop paying so much attention to clothing and start paying more to how you can help others who are broken and hurting.

You are a scorner and a critic.  You have no idea what I do to help the broken and hurting.  You aren't worth the time for me to list the missions, boy's homes, and orphanages with which I am involved.  You have painted all IFB with a broad brush. 

 

[RAIDER]

Watch t.v. commercials.  In many commercials watch what the gals are dressed like.  The advertisers know what they are doing.  A Godly man will turn away.  An ungodly man will watch and lust.  Are the gals suppose to go guilt free because men are not to look?

And look at how their BEHAVIOR is, their body language. Sexism in commercials is intentional and it isn't just the attire attempting to tease.

Do most men have problems lusting when they show highlights of Olympic swimmers coming in and out of a pool? I have one friend who says it bothers him but in general, the response is, why would it be an issue?

Oh, I agree. For example, I won't watch Victoria Secret commercials and do turn away. But we know the intent. And yes, the girls SHOULD "go guilt free" when it comes to my opinion. It is between them and God. I am responsible for my own personal behavior.

We will definitely agree to disagree on this one.  I am anxious to see what some of the gals have to say.  You may have a following. 

"A following"? I DO share a birthday with Kevin Bacon though he is 8 years older...

Now there's a bizarre show!