The Girl(s)

[Timothy]

He was human, and last I checked a man and a woman still can be tempted to fornicate together (regardless of age). His maturity should have allowed him to flee this temptation like Joseph did. But, like David, he engage his temptation and has become a public example of what sin can do to your life.

 

[qwerty]

Since Tim brought up the letters it has me asking how much did Cindy know? good point prophet on why wasn't she counseled by an older Godly lady in the church. I believe that's what we do..

Pride. When you look at the IFB world through the lens of FBC/HAC women can't do much. Schaap can do it all, and to relinquish counseling duties would be an attack on his manhood.

I also believe that he had a predatory spirit within him and tested many women that met with him until he found some inkling of positive feedback from someone that feeds  that spirit.

 

[Boomer]

Read Genesis. To say that women are created in the image of God is incorrect.
[quote author=remnant]Proverbs 2:12-18 speaks of two people, notice first man, second woman, his influence upon her.[/quote]
[/quote]

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
    - Genesis 1:27

In reading Genesis, I didn't have to go too far before I found that God created man in His image as male AND female...

 

[Sherryh]

Since Tim brought up the letters it has me asking how much did Cindy know? good point prophet on why wasn't she counseled by an older Godly lady in the church. I believe that's what we do..

Pride. When you look at the IFB world through the lens of FBC/HAC women can't do much. Schaap can do it all, and to relinquish counseling duties would be an attack on his manhood.

I also believe that he had a predatory spirit within him and tested many women that met with him until he found some inkling of positive feedback from someone that feeds  that spirit.

qwerty, well stated .......I would hope not all ladies would turn their head on situations like this..........

 

[ifbteaparty]

ifbteaparty, is this why you think the girl should be blamed?

No they are not. Is God a woman? Was Jesus a woman? Man was created in the image of God. The woman was created FROM MAN AND FOR MAN. Read Genesis. To say that women are created in the image of God is incorrect.

Are females, in your mind, just chattel, worth less than cattle to a beef rancher?  I've heard tell that Muslims exact a death sentence on women who have been raped.  Do you think that is justified...because she tempted a man into raping her?

Why would you ever even think to place blame on a teenage girl, no matter her history, when she was under the care of a fully grown adult PASTOR?!?  Don't misunderstand me...I don't think he forced her, but he did manipulate her into acquiescence!

Unless you have some heretofore unstated solid reasoning behind your desire to place any blame whatsoever on this minor female, I'll have to go with my gut feeling about you....SLIMY PIG. 

I don't fool myself by thinking that you care about my opinion of your opinion, since I am a female and not made in the image of God.  Oh, and my apologies to pigs worldwide.  I like pigs, but I'm not so sure I like you.     

I never said that women were to be treated poorly. I never ever blamed this young woman for what happened. I just said that she was not without SIN.

And to call me a slimy pig is not very Christ-like.

 

[ifbteaparty]

Interesting that someone would think physical anatomy defines "in the image of God" when speaking of a God that is a Spirit lacking any physical anatomy at the time of the creation.  In Romans 8 the Scripture says that we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.  Does this mean only male Christians will be conformed to the image of Christ?  NO!  Does this mean we will all become Jewish males when our sanctification is complete?  NO!  Perhaps the proper understanding of this text would be that we will be conformed to Christ morally, spiritually, emotionally, and mentally.    This is the type of wrong thinking and poor hermeneutics that helps channel the natural pride and competitiveness of males to this end instead of a productive end of protecting and providing for women.  When males and females are evaluated on physiology alone we miss the real strengths that women bring to the table like empathy, discernment, compassion, etc.  I had to learn the hard way that my wife is a gift from God even in ministry because she is a nearly flawless judge of character and I am a hopeless optimist. 

I appreciate the fact that you are civil in your point of view. "in the image of God created he him...male and female created he them."

God created man first and created him in His image. Physical anatomy is absolutely one part of that image. Jesus was God in the flesh and He was a man. He was God's SON.

When the Scripture talks about being conformed to the image of Christ, it is talking about His likeness, or how He walked while He was on this earth. And we can all be conformed to the image of Christ as a Christian.

The wife is probably more valuable than the husband in my opinion. Adam was not worth much and so God created Eve. I have never seen any man succeed in the ministry without a fantastic wife who will put up with the garbage that the ministry brings. I am nothing but a pile of dust as it is, but I wouldn't be anything without my wife.

I don't want people to think that just because there is a chain of command and just because the man is above the woman in that chain of command, that the woman is viewed as less significant. That's not my viewpoint at all.

 

[ifbteaparty]

Since Tim brought up the letters it has me asking how much did Cindy know? good point prophet on why wasn't she counseled by an older Godly lady in the church. I believe that's what we do..

Pride. When you look at the IFB world through the lens of FBC/HAC women can't do much. Schaap can do it all, and to relinquish counseling duties would be an attack on his manhood.

I also believe that he had a predatory spirit within him and tested many women that met with him until he found some inkling of positive feedback from someone that feeds  that spirit.

I agree completely.

 

[lnf]

You are right, ifbteaparty, my name calling was not very Christlike.  Even though you do not think I am made in the image of God, I do.  And I desire to be Christlike.  So I will edit my post to remove the offending comment...and offer you a sincere apology.

ifbteaparty, I am truly sorry I called you a disparaging name.  I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

 

[Norefund]

But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow.

Please give some links showing examples where the media described the girl this way. Is it possible that you are allowing statements from Schaap supporters to influence what you think you read?

I never received a response to this request. Should I presume that no such link exists?

 

[ifbteaparty]

How many times do I have to tell you that I cannot stand Jack Schaap? I have been calling for his firing for years before this happened. I don't read his supporters, nor do I really know of any right now.

The media keeps saying "victim." People on blogs keep talking about this "poor girl." All I was saying was that while Schaap is a creeping piece of trash, she might not be as much of a victim as we think and we should not cast judgment on her either way.

 

[BALAAM]

How many times do I have to tell you that I cannot stand Jack Schaap? I have been calling for his firing for years before this happened. I don't read his supporters, nor do I really know of any right now.

The media keeps saying "victim." People on blogs keep talking about this "poor girl." All I was saying was that while Schaap is a creeping piece of trash, she might not be as much of a victim as we think and we should not cast judgment on her either way.

Okay here is a little snapshot into this girls life and upbringing. Up until the very last Sunday night that Schaap preached while all this was going on, he was preaching and telling parents, "You need to buy into me!"

Now this seemingly innocent little statement has been burned into this girl's head, her parent's heads, and most of the people's head in fbch, including the bobble heads that sat behind him on the platform. While any outsider with a normal upbringing can look and say that she should have just said no, they have no idea of the subtle pressure from her pastor, teachers, youth directors, school camp preachers, youth revival preachers, school principal and most other people she had been taught to respect to follow the pastor's leading and direction WITHOUT QUESTION. I guarantee you that she never one time heard that she should go to the Bible and go to God for direction and follow His leading, it was always the MOG without question.

 

[ifbteaparty]

You are right, ifbteaparty, my name calling was not very Christlike.  Even though you do not think I am made in the image of God, I do.  And I desire to be Christlike.  So I will edit my post to remove the offending comment...and offer you a sincere apology.

ifbteaparty, I am truly sorry I called you a disparaging name.  I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

i;m still trying to figure out what big shifter is supposed to mean. ..  .. but i assume it much be something Christlike since no one.. (like ifbteaparty) .. who complains about someone else calling them an un Christlike name would never use one on somebody else themselves.... right?...

Gear down, big shifter means calm down. Gear down would mean to take it down from gear 5 to gear 4 or 3 or 2 or 1. It means to take the car down a couple gears.

 

[ifbteaparty]

and didn;t you yourself make a post yesterday claiming women are not made in the image of God?.. .  if that were true then wouldn;t you agree it;s a relatively "poor" condition in comparison to a man who is made in Gods image?.... 
[/font][/size][/color]

Look, I didn't write the Bible; I am just explaining what It says. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm reading it correctly.

Look at I Corinthians 11:7- "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man."

The man is the image and glory of God BUT (which means that the next sentence is OPPOSITE the previous sentence) the woman is the glory of the man.

I am not taking this verse out of context- verse 3 makes it clear that the chain of command is Christ, man, woman.

I am not just making statements to make people mad. Someone said that the woman was created in the image of God and I just responded to that incorrect statement.

 

[lnf]

ifbteaparty, I agree with you when it comes to the chain of command.  Someone has to be the leader.  As an unmarried woman, I should defer to my father, who defers to Christ.  As a married woman, I should defer to my husband, who defers to Christ.  As an unremarried widow, I should defer to Christ. 

What I cannot agree with is your assertion that I am not, as a woman, made in the image of God. 

 

[Torrent v.2]

How many times do I have to tell you that I cannot stand Jack Schaap? I have been calling for his firing for years before this happened. I don't read his supporters, nor do I really know of any right now.

The media keeps saying "victim." People on blogs keep talking about this "poor girl." All I was saying was that while Schaap is a creeping piece of trash, she might not be as much of a victim as we think and we should not cast judgment on her either way.

You're kidding, right?  She was 16. he was 54, and highly powerful and experienced. She was hurt, and he was her pastor and school administrator. She implicitly trusted him. 


There is absolutely no fault that you can, in your wildest dreams, attach to her.

Jack Schaap is 100% at fault.
Does anyone else agree with me?

 

[patriotic]

from ifbteaparty

Look, I didn't write the Bible; I am just explaining what It says. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm reading it correctly.

Look at I Corinthians 11:7- "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man."

The man is the image and glory of God BUT (which means that the next sentence is OPPOSITE the previous sentence) the woman is the glory of the man.

I am not taking this verse out of context- verse 3 makes it clear that the chain of command is Christ, man, woman.

I am not just making statements to make people mad. Someone said that the woman was created in the image of God and I just responded to that incorrect statement.

well..  i think you are reading it wrong...  an image made from a copy of the first image, that was copied after the original image, is still an image of the first image and also of the original.....  every man woman and child on the face of the earth with a spirit imparted from God is made in that same image ... there was more to being made in the image than just being a physical copy ...

but whether you are reading it wrong or not .. the way you present your view on it is offensive..  and if you are wrong then your offensive response to someone who was stating what they believe the Bible teaches is all the more insidious if they in fact are correct and you are proven at the judgment to have been the one in the wrong .. ..   

maybe you should take your own advice about "gearing down" . ..big shifter... 

Nailed it! 

 

[ifbteaparty]

from ifbteaparty

Look, I didn't write the Bible; I am just explaining what It says. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm reading it correctly.

Look at I Corinthians 11:7- "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man."

The man is the image and glory of God BUT (which means that the next sentence is OPPOSITE the previous sentence) the woman is the glory of the man.

I am not taking this verse out of context- verse 3 makes it clear that the chain of command is Christ, man, woman.

I am not just making statements to make people mad. Someone said that the woman was created in the image of God and I just responded to that incorrect statement.

well..  i think you are reading it wrong...  an image made from a copy of the first image, that was copied after the original image, is still an image of the first image and also of the original.....  every man woman and child on the face of the earth with a spirit imparted from God is made in that same image ... there was more to being made in the image than just being a physical copy ...

but whether you are reading it wrong or not .. the way you present your view on it is offensive..  and if you are wrong then your offensive response to someone who was stating what they believe the Bible teaches is all the more insidious if they in fact are correct and you are proven at the judgment to have been the one in the wrong .. ..   

maybe you should take your own advice about "gearing down" . ..big shifter... 

Nailed it!
[/quote

I am presenting this wrong, yet I am the one being called names and being told I don't know anything about the Bible? Instead of attacking me, why not just give all the Scriptures that tell us the woman was made in God's image...you can't because they don't exist. Stop attacking me.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ifbteaparty]I am presenting this wrong, yet I am the one being called names and being told I don't know anything about the Bible? Instead of attacking me, why not just give all the Scriptures that tell us the woman was made in God's image...you can't because they don't exist. Stop attacking me.
[/quote]

I believe three of us have posted Scripture that said exactly that.

 

[ifbteaparty]

[quote author=ifbteaparty]I am presenting this wrong, yet I am the one being called names and being told I don't know anything about the Bible? Instead of attacking me, why not just give all the Scriptures that tell us the woman was made in God's image...you can't because they don't exist. Stop attacking me.

I believe three of us have posted Scripture that said exactly that.
[/quote/

To say that we are to be conformed to the image of Christ has nothing to do with man being created in the image and glory of God and the woman being the glory of man. I should have been more specific: please give Scriptures IN CONTEXT.

 

[lnf]

ifbteaparty, see Boomer's post #98...

Genesis 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This is a long thread, but I do believe rsc2a to be correct...Boomer was not the only one to post this verse.