The Hacker Thread about Absolutely Nothing Particular!

Barna Group is a profit-making group that researches churches and sells their information. They recently posted this free "teaser":

Among Christians dealing with the effects of trauma, here are the three types of traumatic experiences they are most likely to report:

  • Two-fifths of practicing Christians (40%) say their trauma was incited by the death of a loved one, the most common cause among this group.
  • The next most commonly mentioned cause of trauma is betrayal by a trusted individual, noted by one-third of the group (33%).
  • Forms of abuse such as domestic violence (27%), physical abuse (22%) and sexual abuse (21%) follow in frequency.
Note from Vince: It is important to note that many of these events did not occur at church; they are simply the most common traumas experienced by practicing Christians.
 
JACK WAS RIGHT!
Here in "The Gringo Zone" of Mexico, we have several English-speaking churches consisting mainly of retired Americans and Canadians. Over the past few months, they have become gripped by infighting, plots, and attempts to seize power. And most of the fighters are doing little or nothing to spread the Gospel.
Jack Hyles (and Jim Vineyard) would not have allowed most of them to hold any position of leadership.
 
JACK WAS RIGHT!
Here in "The Gringo Zone" of Mexico, we have several English-speaking churches consisting mainly of retired Americans and Canadians. Over the past few months, they have become gripped by infighting, plots, and attempts to seize power. And most of the fighters are doing little or nothing to spread the Gospel.
Jack Hyles (and Jim Vineyard) would not have allowed most of them to hold any position of leadership.

For instance, we left the Baptist church 13 years ago when a small group seized control. Last year, a rival group failed to seize control, so they started a new church they can control. I'm friends with people from both sides, and it looks like a power struggle over who will rule without the congregation's consent.
 
THE CHURCH TREASURER

Professors at HAC would occasionally drop a hint about something they disagreed with; they were Godly men who were sneaking in an occasional truth that was forbidden. And Jim Vineyard did it the most of all.

On at least three occasions, I remember him referring to a church treasurer as "the church Judas." And that was the only thing HAC ever taught me about the church treasurer. Over the decades, I have seen that most church treasurers are Godly, honest men who are not paid for their work. And then there were a few...

So I don't know how it will go, but I want to talk about church treasurers.
 
Vince Massi said:
THE CHURCH TREASURER

Professors at HAC would occasionally drop a hint about something they disagreed with; they were Godly men who were sneaking in an occasional truth that was forbidden. And Jim Vineyard did it the most of all.

On at least three occasions, I remember him referring to a church treasurer as "the church Judas." And that was the only thing HAC ever taught me about the church treasurer. Over the decades, I have seen that most church treasurers are Godly, honest men who are not paid for their work. And then there were a few...

So I don't know how it will go, but I want to talk about church treasurers.
Click to expand...
From the Scriptures, it appears to me that deacons were ordained to manage the carnal resources of the church, and that bishops (or pastors) were to manage the doctrinal.
 
A guest speaker at HAC told about the treasurer in his first church. She took the offerings into a locked room and counted the money privately. Many of the church's bills were mailed directly to her house, along with the bank statements (This was pre-personal computer). She was the only person who signed, or even saw, the checks. The deacons told the new pastor that no one but her knew anything about the finances, and there was nothing they could do.
Going to the church's bank, the pastor talked to the president, who told him that this was blatantly illegal. They got the deacons to the bank, closed the church's account, put the money into a new account, required two signatures on each check, and got the church's bills mailed to the church.

The next Sunday, they told the treasurer what they had done, and that she was no longer treasurer.
 
A dying Baptist church had asked me to be the interim pastor (I am not called to pastor) and we were considering amending the church constitution.
Two ambitious women ordered my wife out of the nursery, and in the business meeting that followed that day, demanded that we add a constitutional requirement that only the treasurer could sign checks. I figured out what they had planned, and explained it from the pulpit:
One of them was married to the treasurer. No matter what the church or deacons decided, no money could be spent, and no bills could be paid, unless the husband signed the check. Since his wife was the head of his house, she would be in control of the church, regardless of what the church wanted. Furthermore, she had threatened in the past to take the church to court if she didn't get her way, and she could legally force the church do what whatever the constitution said.
The motion failed.
 
I felt strongly led to read a book on Church Finances. I only learned one thing, and here it is: Do not let anyone on the finance committee who does not agree with the goals of the church.

As a member of the finance committee, a person who wants to seize power can influence others who are in a position to help him seize power.
 
"Have a budget, and live and die by that budget."
Valid point.
 
The dying Baptist church that had me as interim pastor had a problem. The pastor had quit in a rage, but he had kept his keys. The checkbook was in his desk. He still lived in the area, and the deacons were afraid of him.

When they told me the problem, I said that I would get the checkbook, and that it was no longer his office or his desk. The entire deacon board went with me and watched me remove the checkbook and hand it to the church treasurer.
 
When we arrived in Mexico, I began volunteering at a Christian orphanage. Our Baptist church had voted to support the woman running the orphanage with 1,000 pesos/month (about $80 US at the time). Since I was going there anyway, they asked me to deliver the cash.

Wandabell was the church treasurer, and she demanded that I jump through an increasingly difficult series of hoops every month to get the money. Spending three or four hours a month on the paperwork didn't stop me, so she steadily increased the requirements, eventually rejecting all the paperwork. I told the deacons that I wanted to hire an accountant to deliver the money, and that the accountant's fees were to be deducted from Wandabell's salary. I also told them bluntly, that Wandabell was refusing to pay money ordered by the church, and that she needed to be fired.
 
The pastor explained to me that Wandabell was the only one who knew what the finances were. She paid all the bills promptly, filled out all forms correctly, and refused to let anyone else examine the records. He told me bluntly that if Wandabell quit, the church would be in serious trouble, and that the Mexican government might conduct an audit that the church would not know how to handle.
He also explained that the deacons agreed with the pastor that Wandabell could not be brought under the church's control.
 
Wandabell had just bought a new house, and she demanded a hefty pay raise. She threatened to quit if she didn't get it; she also announced that she was giving it to herself anyway.
The pastor told me privately that he and the deacons had agreed that they had to give her the raise, and he asked me not to vote against it. At the business meeting, I quietly abstained, and the motion was carried unanimously.
 
Nobody would agree to serve as Church Clerk, so I agreed. Then I found out what my responsibilities were. We were between pastors and I showed the head deacon that the church constitution required that at least two people had to be present when the money was counted.
The man's face showed visible fear as he assured me that he would take care of it, and that I was not to say anything about it.
 
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