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How does everyone feel about the explanation from WE that Jack Hyles didn't have to accept the eyewitness account because WE had not written down Dave Hyle's license plate number?

My opinion is that Hyles always did whatever he could to deny Dave's actions no matter how credible the source was. Well, not just Dave's. Other sexual predators got the same "hear no evil" treatment too, actually.


Binaca Chugger said:
I am pretty confident that WE has not been preaching out an the past couple years.  His health is really waning.  I don't feel like WE should apologize to the nation.  It seems he has made things right with his daughter and has given formal statements to the powers that be (not a MOG).  I am very happy to hear this.
 
Norefund said:
How does everyone feel about the explanation from WE that Jack Hyles didn't have to accept the eyewitness account because WE had not written down Dave Hyle's license plate number?

My opinion is that Hyles always did whatever he could to deny Dave's actions no matter how credible the source was. Well, not just Dave's. Other sexual predators got the same "hear no evil" treatment too, actually.


Binaca Chugger said:
I am pretty confident that WE has not been preaching out an the past couple years.  His health is really waning.  I don't feel like WE should apologize to the nation.  It seems he has made things right with his daughter and has given formal statements to the powers that be (not a MOG).  I am very happy to hear this.
I vividly remember all of Hyles cryptic references to Bob Gray of Jacksonville's child molestation, yet he retained fellowship with him until he went to prison.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 
Norefund said:
How does everyone feel about the explanation from WE that Jack Hyles didn't have to accept the eyewitness account because WE had not written down Dave Hyle's license plate number?

My opinion is that Hyles always did whatever he could to deny Dave's actions no matter how credible the source was. Well, not just Dave's. Other sexual predators got the same "hear no evil" treatment too, actually.


Binaca Chugger said:
I am pretty confident that WE has not been preaching out an the past couple years.  His health is really waning.  I don't feel like WE should apologize to the nation.  It seems he has made things right with his daughter and has given formal statements to the powers that be (not a MOG).  I am very happy to hear this.

I don't think that WE was saying that he accepted the account.  Rather, WE pursued it further to get JH to believe.  WE is the one who pushed JH enough to remove DH from the Hammond area.  Sadly, JH found DH a place to prey upon others. 
 
Binaca Chugger said:
Norefund said:
How does everyone feel about the explanation from WE that Jack Hyles didn't have to accept the eyewitness account because WE had not written down Dave Hyle's license plate number?

My opinion is that Hyles always did whatever he could to deny Dave's actions no matter how credible the source was. Well, not just Dave's. Other sexual predators got the same "hear no evil" treatment too, actually.


Binaca Chugger said:
I am pretty confident that WE has not been preaching out an the past couple years.  His health is really waning.  I don't feel like WE should apologize to the nation.  It seems he has made things right with his daughter and has given formal statements to the powers that be (not a MOG).  I am very happy to hear this.

I don't think that WE was saying that he accepted the account.  Rather, WE pursued it further to get JH to believe.  WE is the one who pushed JH enough to remove DH from the Hammond area.  Sadly, JH found DH a place to prey upon others.

IN FAIRNESS ----

Jack Hyles was dead before Bob Gray's sin became public.  Not sure, but I think it was in 2006.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/former-pastor-talked-openly-with-police-about-sex-charges
 
WESLEY said:
Binaca Chugger said:
Norefund said:
How does everyone feel about the explanation from WE that Jack Hyles didn't have to accept the eyewitness account because WE had not written down Dave Hyle's license plate number?

My opinion is that Hyles always did whatever he could to deny Dave's actions no matter how credible the source was. Well, not just Dave's. Other sexual predators got the same "hear no evil" treatment too, actually.


Binaca Chugger said:
I am pretty confident that WE has not been preaching out an the past couple years.  His health is really waning.  I don't feel like WE should apologize to the nation.  It seems he has made things right with his daughter and has given formal statements to the powers that be (not a MOG).  I am very happy to hear this.

I don't think that WE was saying that he accepted the account.  Rather, WE pursued it further to get JH to believe.  WE is the one who pushed JH enough to remove DH from the Hammond area.  Sadly, JH found DH a place to prey upon others.

IN FAIRNESS ----

Jack Hyles was dead before Bob Gray's sin became public.  Not sure, but I think it was in 2006.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/former-pastor-talked-openly-with-police-about-sex-charges
But when did Bob Gray get 'called' to become a missionary in Germany? Sometime back in the early 90's?  Was that move to cover the impending crisis?
 
16KJV11 said:
WESLEY said:
Binaca Chugger said:
Norefund said:
How does everyone feel about the explanation from WE that Jack Hyles didn't have to accept the eyewitness account because WE had not written down Dave Hyle's license plate number?

My opinion is that Hyles always did whatever he could to deny Dave's actions no matter how credible the source was. Well, not just Dave's. Other sexual predators got the same "hear no evil" treatment too, actually.


Binaca Chugger said:
I am pretty confident that WE has not been preaching out an the past couple years.  His health is really waning.  I don't feel like WE should apologize to the nation.  It seems he has made things right with his daughter and has given formal statements to the powers that be (not a MOG).  I am very happy to hear this.

I don't think that WE was saying that he accepted the account.  Rather, WE pursued it further to get JH to believe.  WE is the one who pushed JH enough to remove DH from the Hammond area.  Sadly, JH found DH a place to prey upon others.

IN FAIRNESS ----

Jack Hyles was dead before Bob Gray's sin became public.  Not sure, but I think it was in 2006.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/former-pastor-talked-openly-with-police-about-sex-charges
But when did Bob Gray get 'called' to become a missionary in Germany? Sometime back in the early 90's?  Was that move to cover the impending crisis?

Yes.  It was long supposed that he went to Germany to escape accusations.  If you read the article in the link, he actually admits to this course of action.
 
I am referring to the section below that I have highlighted in very large print. Hey, there was no license plate number provided so what was Jack supposed to do? Believe a man - a man who is the president of the college that bears his name - telling him he saw Dave with his daughter in a hotel? Not enough proof - even though there were 2 witnesses - Joy and Wendell.

This is smoking gun proof that Hyles cared nothing about any abused member of the flock. He only cared about maintaining the appearance of his ministry and his position of power and influence.

I'm kind of looking forward to seeing Bob Gray's blog reaction to this story.



In Joy Evans Ryder?s mid-1970s church-driven world, skirts had to go past knees, men and women had to be separated by six inches, and a good daughter?s gift to her father was to save her first kiss for the altar.

A father himself, Jack Hyles was nicknamed the ?Baptist Pope? for the sway he held over the nationwide independent fundamental Baptist movement from his power base in small-town Indiana.

His son Dave was tall, skinny and already balding by his mid-20s. He had his father?s eyes that pulled down at the corners. No one would have called him traditionally handsome, but he had his father?s ability to make you feel a part of the in-crowd with a compliment or sarcastic joke. And he could just as easily push you out with a cutting insult.

Dave Hyles had taken an interest in Ryder when she was 14, and it scared her.

One Sunday morning after service, she stood in line to speak to Jack Hyles ? the most important person in her world ? about his son?s repeated calls to her house. The attention made her uncomfortable, she said.

The pastor sat at his desk and took her in for a moment.

?Joy, you?re not special,? he said. ?He does that with everyone. So don?t think he?s trying to do anything with you.?

Not long after, she was raped by Dave Hyles. It continued for two years.

Reached by phone, Dave Hyles declined to comment. The Star-Telegram followed up by sending him a list of written questions. He did not respond. Jack Hyles died in 2001.

At 16, Ryder thought about suicide, fearing she might be pregnant with Dave Hyles? child. She imagined ramming her car into a telephone pole or a tree, killing her and the baby.

She didn?t think about going to police.

?I went to somebody I thought would be my protector,? Ryder said. ?Not my dad, because this shows you how we were taught to think about our pastor, Dr. Hyles.?

Dave Hyles had warned her to stay quiet or he?d get her parents fired. Her father was president of Hyles-Anderson College, a school started by and run from First Baptist Church. Her mother was the school?s dean of women.

To her friends, Ryder looked happy. She was popular, secure in her social status, and had a spot in the church school?s coveted choir, called Strength and Beauty. She liked to run off to the mall with friends every chance she got and had her light-brown hair feathered, Farrah Fawcett-style.

But she was also angry and ready to rebel against the system that entrapped her. She sneaked to movies, wore pants and swiped cigarette packs, all verboten in the church.

At 17, Ryder snapped. She called her parents from a payphone at the church school and told them to meet her at home. She told them everything.

The next time she met Hyles, her father would follow.

He drove behind her to a Holiday Inn, and waited in his car as he watched Ryder walk into a first-floor room and shut the door.

Hotel
Joy Evans Ryder says Dave Hyles raped her when he was her youth director. Her father followed her to this hotel room in Illinois, then a Holiday Inn, when she told Hyles they were done. Hyles has never been charged with a crime.
COURTESY JOY EVANS RYDER
?I?m leaving,? Ryder told Hyles.

He asked what she meant.

?I?m leaving,? she repeated. ?I told my parents, and my dad is outside.?

Hyles pulled back the curtain and saw her father?s car. She says he shoved her against the wall, his forearm pressed on her throat.

?What have you done to me? You?ve ruined my ministry. How could you do this to me???
He let her go and paced the room. Ryder walked out, got in her car and drove home. Her father followed her. He didn?t confront Hyles.

He did, however, go to Jack Hyles, who dismissed the report about his son because Ryder?s father didn?t record Dave Hyles? license plate number.

Her father dropped the subject.


Ryder?s father, Wendell Evans, wished he could do it over, he said 35 years later in a notarized statement provided to the Star-Telegram, taken because Ryder was seeking evidence to take to the church.

At the time of the abuse, Evans? career was blossoming in the church. Pushing Hyles, his boss, on the allegations would have been difficult, he said.

?I mean, Hyles and I were still good friends,? he said. ?We marveled sometimes that our friendship survived this situation.?

But in an interview with the Star-Telegram, Evans was not so forgiving of Dave Hyles. He regrets not calling the police on him.

?I think it?s remarkable that in 40 years, Dave didn?t find time to ask forgiveness from his victims and their parents,? said Evans, now 83.

It was not the first time Jack Hyles heard allegations against his son, nor would it be the last. One woman alleged Dave Hyles raped her at 14 when she attended the church?s high school, years before Ryder. The woman?s 10th-grade teacher also confronted Jack Hyles about his son, only to be brushed off.

Dave Hyles? ministry wasn?t ruined. Instead, he got promoted.

A few months after Evans and Jack Hyles spoke about the encounter at the Holiday Inn, Dave Hyles became the pastor at Miller Road Baptist Church in Garland, Texas ? the church his father led before moving to Indiana. Jack Hyles would later say he never recommended his son to any church, but deacons and staffers at Miller Road said their search committee called Jack Hyles about Dave. No one heard any warnings.

Two more women would accuse Dave Hyles of molesting them in Texas. One woman, who went to Hyles-Anderson for college, said she tried to tell Jack Hyles what had happened. He told her not to tell anyone else.

Then, she said, he kicked her out of his office.
 
From Part 3 - The Exiles:

?I?ve been away from there for 30-plus years, I still have those feelings. I still ? if something bad happens to me, my immediate go-to in my brain is God?s punishing me, and I have to talk myself through it.?

? Linda Murphrey, who requested her location be withheld because she?s received death threats for speaking out in the past.

Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/living/religion/article222576550.html#topicLink=fundamental-baptist-abuse#storylink=cpy
 
The report states that Wendell dropped it.  Wendell did not state that he dropped it.  We know that Wendell would tell Jack that either Dave would leave or Wendell would leave.  Jack made a way for David to leave.

Yes, we all wish that none of this would have happened.  Many people wish that Wendell would have gone to the police, or that any of the other girl's dad would have gone to the police (ought to include those guys as well in this discussion).  We all wish that Jack would have fired his son and sent him to real treatment instead of passing him on to a church as a pastor.  Fact is that none of what we wish would have happened.

I was just a kid in those days.  I have to imagine that it was a different world back then.  The culture was not as well prepared to deal with such a perverted predator.  Could it be that ignorance coupled with fear and pride caused this colossal cover-up?

For many years I had been angry.  I was angry at WE for not doing his duty as a father and seeing that Dave was punished.  I was angry at Jack for not preventing the further destruction of his son.  Somehow, I was not angry at the other parents of other girls involved.  As time has gone on, I began to try seeing things from the perspective of the dad in that era in that circumstance.  Different feelings came about.

At this stage, I am happy to hear that Wendell has publicly acknowledged his mistake.  I am happy to hear that Wendell has tried to make things right with his daughter.  Wendell is not long for this earth and it is good to know that, in the end, he finally did the right thing.
 
Norefund said:
From Part 3 - The Exiles:

?I?ve been away from there for 30-plus years, I still have those feelings. I still ? if something bad happens to me, my immediate go-to in my brain is God?s punishing me, and I have to talk myself through it.?

? Linda Murphrey, who requested her location be withheld because she?s received death threats for speaking out in the past.

Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/living/religion/article222576550.html#topicLink=fundamental-baptist-abuse#storylink=cpy

Ugh.... The Linda Chronicles.  Linda has tried to make money off of her father's name.  You can see her father's style in her claims.  We have already discussed at length the lies in her TED talks and how she discredits herself because of those lies.  Even in this little statement (Location be withheld because she's received death threats for speaking out in the past) she is self-aggrandizing.  Linda might have something to say, but it is hard to sort the fact from the fiction that she sells in effort to make money off of how bad her dad treated her.
 
As I understand it, the story that Dr. Evans gave Jack an ultimatum that either Dave leave or Dr. Evans would quit is a THEORY proposed on a Christian forum over a decade ago. As the years passed, the story came to be accepted as fact, and it is widely reported as fact. However, Dr. Evans has never confirmed that.


I have spoken out against the sins of HAC for years, and I have never received a death threat.
 
Do we know this or is it just speculation? I also wonder how much WE was fearful for his and his wife's future employment. I agree with you that it is a good thing that WE and his daughter have reconciled and he finally came clean.  It's just too bad it didn't happen when it could have made a difference but better late than never.

And I don't buy in to the "it was a different time" argument as it was not an isolated instance. Dave had many underage victims. Bob Olsen had many underage victims. Jack Hyles was told of these two predators by many people. Right was right and wrong was wrong in any time period. Ignoring and covering up these crimes should never be excused.



Binaca Chugger said:
The report states that Wendell dropped it.  Wendell did not state that he dropped it.  We know that Wendell would tell Jack that either Dave would leave or Wendell would leave.  Jack made a way for David to leave.

Yes, we all wish that none of this would have happened.  Many people wish that Wendell would have gone to the police, or that any of the other girl's dad would have gone to the police (ought to include those guys as well in this discussion).  We all wish that Jack would have fired his son and sent him to real treatment instead of passing him on to a church as a pastor.  Fact is that none of what we wish would have happened.

I was just a kid in those days.  I have to imagine that it was a different world back then.  The culture was not as well prepared to deal with such a perverted predator.  Could it be that ignorance coupled with fear and pride caused this colossal cover-up?

For many years I had been angry.  I was angry at WE for not doing his duty as a father and seeing that Dave was punished.  I was angry at Jack for not preventing the further destruction of his son.  Somehow, I was not angry at the other parents of other girls involved.  As time has gone on, I began to try seeing things from the perspective of the dad in that era in that circumstance.  Different feelings came about.

At this stage, I am happy to hear that Wendell has publicly acknowledged his mistake.  I am happy to hear that Wendell has tried to make things right with his daughter.  Wendell is not long for this earth and it is good to know that, in the end, he finally did the right thing.
 
With all due respect, Vince, very few people know who you are. Every Jack Hyles fan knows who Linda is. I have no problem believing she received death threats after her TED talk and her incomplete book chapters.


Vince Massi said:
As I understand it, the story that Dr. Evans gave Jack an ultimatum that either Dave leave or Dr. Evans would quit is a THEORY proposed on a Christian forum over a decade ago. As the years passed, the story came to be accepted as fact, and it is widely reported as fact. However, Dr. Evans has never confirmed that.


I have spoken out against the sins of HAC for years, and I have never received a death threat.
 
Norefund said:
With all due respect, Vince, very few people know who you are. Every Jack Hyles fan knows who Linda is. I have no problem believing she received death threats after her TED talk and her incomplete book chapters.


Vince Massi said:
As I understand it, the story that Dr. Evans gave Jack an ultimatum that either Dave leave or Dr. Evans would quit is a THEORY proposed on a Christian forum over a decade ago. As the years passed, the story came to be accepted as fact, and it is widely reported as fact. However, Dr. Evans has never confirmed that.


I have spoken out against the sins of HAC for years, and I have never received a death threat.
I was thinking the same thing but I didn't want to hurt ole' Vinces' feelings as to his insignificance! :p
 
Norefund said:
With all due respect, Vince, very few people know who you are. Every Jack Hyles fan knows who Linda is. I have no problem believing she received death threats after her TED talk and her incomplete book chapters.


Vince Massi said:
Norefund, you're making an intelligent point. However over the years I have read different posters taking about receiving threats from Jack's defenders for speaking out against his sins. I never said that they or Linda were imagining things, but I do have doubts.

When I was at  HAC, I was slandered from the chapel pulpit, had my grades and records falsified, and had permanent slanders attached to my transcripts. And one of Vineyard's Gangsters came to my dorm and threatened me if I didn't stop objecting to their sins. But I never received a death threat.

On a few occasions, something I stated on a forum was preached against from FBCH or from a pro-Hyles website, but I never received any death threats.

So let's ask the forum:

You people who have posted on this forum against the sins of HAC, Jack Hyles, FBCH, Jim Vineyard, Dave Hyles, etc. Have you ever received a death threat?


I have spoken out against the sins of HAC for years, and I have never received a death threat.
 
Vince Massi said:
Norefund said:
With all due respect, Vince, very few people know who you are. Every Jack Hyles fan knows who Linda is. I have no problem believing she received death threats after her TED talk and her incomplete book chapters.


Vince Massi said:
Norefund, you're making an intelligent point. However over the years I have read different posters taking about receiving threats from Jack's defenders for speaking out against his sins. I never said that they or Linda were imagining things, but I do have doubts.

When I was at  HAC, I was slandered from the chapel pulpit, had my grades and records falsified, and had permanent slanders attached to my transcripts. And one of Vineyard's Gangsters came to my dorm and threatened me if I didn't stop objecting to their sins. But I never received a death threat.

On a few occasions, something I stated on a forum was preached against from FBCH or from a pro-Hyles website, but I never received any death threats.

So let's ask the forum:

You people who have posted on this forum against the sins of HAC, Jack Hyles, FBCH, Jim Vineyard, Dave Hyles, etc. Have you ever received a death threat?


I have spoken out against the sins of HAC for years, and I have never received a death threat.

Sorry, Vince, but you're a nobody just like the rest of us.

The only ones that received any threats were Nischik, Glover and Godfrey.  Godfrey probably the worst.
 
"Sorry, Vince, but you're a nobody just like the rest of us.

The only ones that received any threats were Nischik, Glover and Godfrey.  Godfrey probably the worst."

Twisted, you need to change your avatar--a variety of your posts show that you have a solid grasp of reality.

This is a small forum that accomplishes little good. But on this and similar forums, I find HACcers hoping for answers to how things went so horribly wrong, and God has blessed me with some ability to help them.  Believing  false accusations against Jack and his group will not help these people.

If you are correct in stating that these three men are the only ones to receive death threats, then Linda Hyles never received a death threat, nor did any of the other posters over the years who claimed to have received them. Furthermore, if you go to the police with an internet death threat, they do have a procedure for contacting the internet provider and finding the computer that the threat came from. But I have never read of anyone being arrested for threatening to kill one of Jack's critics. COULD it have happened? Of course. But I have some problems with some of these claims.
 
Norefund said:
Every Jack Hyles fan knows who Linda is. I have no problem believing she received death threats after her TED talk and her incomplete book chapters.

Sure, sure, sure.  And the church of Satan had people in place to take down Jack...And the KGB had Jack on his their hit list...

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
 
Vince Massi said:
If you are correct in stating that these three men are the only ones to receive death threats, then Linda Hyles never received a death threat, nor did any of the other posters over the years who claimed to have received them.

I've never spoken to Linda or to the other posters you mention.  I only speak from my personal experience.

But the fact remains:  Who cares?

Nobody.
 
Vince Massi said:
As I understand it, the story that Dr. Evans gave Jack an ultimatum that either Dave leave or Dr. Evans would quit is a THEORY proposed on a Christian forum over a decade ago. As the years passed, the story came to be accepted as fact, and it is widely reported as fact. However, Dr. Evans has never confirmed that.

I believe it is true.  I believe that Wendell went to Jack and this was the event that caused Jack to begin to recognize that something had to be done.  I know that Wendell denied the events to even his closest friends.  I believe that, in his mind, he was protecting his daughter by protecting her reputation as best he could.  (I know - the victim should not have to fear judgment from bystanders, yet this happens and is a majority reason people from all walks of life choose to not press charges)  It would seem as though Wendell now has recognized that this was not the best course of action that he could have taken and regrets his decision.

The report indicates that Dave got promoted.  We all know that this was no promotion.  Rather than being heralded by thousands, he would only have hundreds to praise him and these would take time to begin to hail him.  This move was a demotion and the paper got that part wrong.
 
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