When We Fail

FSSL said:
Why does Ransom get all of the glory for last year's flight of some trolls?

I thought it was my fault! I think Ransom deserves a raise in pay!


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I don't think you're such a bad guy. But if you don't mind a word of advice...

For argument's sake, let's say that you were right ( I don't know and I don't care). You hurt your testimony by getting into a public fight with them. After you left, they shot themselves without your help.
 
Vince Massi said:
For argument's sake, let's say that you were right ( I don't know and I don't care). You hurt your testimony by getting into a public fight with them. After you left, they shot themselves without your help.
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How does it help your testimony to spew allegorical garbage then refuse to answer questions about it? Coward!
 
Everybody was happy about having a new, hate-free FFF without Ransom. New members piled in rapidly. And then they blew it. ONE person began a hate campaign, ripping into the other posters, piling up bad reps on people, and driving members away. No one had attacked her.

I sent a PM to the administrator, pointing out that the site was virtually destroyed. I received a courteous reply, explaining that this kind of give-and-take was what made the FFF strong--yet I was the only other poster left. I sent a PM to the founder of the site. He was very courteous, explained that he had stopped posting, and that this kind of debate was good.

I bailed out. Except for occasional posts from the admin or the owner, the hater has the site to herself.

The leaders of the FFF do not understand why it is dying, and they do not believe it when it is shown to them.
 
Vince Massi said:
I sent a PM to the administrator, pointing out that the site was virtually destroyed.
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You're such a heeeee-ro.  Too bad your superpowers include cowardly avoidance of questions.
 
Brethren, something occurred to me today that I think comes from God. Years ago, I wrote the series "Abandon Ship" on another forum, ILLUSTRATING principles for getting out of a bad church. A Calvinist,  followed along, ripping into everything I said. Since he had already shown himself to be a strong opponent of God's Word, I didn't attach any importance to it.

Years later, I rewrote the series on this forum. Ransom, a Calvinist, followed along, ripping into me, but since he's a scorner anyway, I didn't attach any importance to it.

But when I made the point about the wrath of God not falling on you if you leave a bad church, I got a reaction from other Calvinists. I figured that they might practice threats of Divine wrath if you left their church, but did not attach much importance to it.

But Calvinists keep referring back to that thread, where I stated clearly, more than once, that I was ILLUSTRATING principles for leaving a bad church. But I'm starting to suspect that the thread was more accurate than I had realized.

If you are dissatisfied with your church, especially if it is Calvinist, you might want to look at http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/abandon-ship!/

You'll have to wade through a lot of hatred, but you could benefit your spiritual life  by getting into a better church.
 
Hey, since Vince is frightened of questions, let's just add some more into the mix.

[list type=decimal]
[*]You start out this thread attempting to explain "how to deal with failed Christians." However,  you do not define what you mean by "failure." What is your definition of failure?
[*]Since you have claimed that the FFF is "failing," how does the definition in the previous question apply to the FFF?
[*]What makes you think that the owners/administrators/moderators of the FFF define success and failure in the same way?
[/list]

Oh, and while you're avoiding these questions, don't forget to keep running away from these questions.
 
Folks, the more I think of this, the more convinced I am that some of you need to read that series on "Abandon Ship."

If you are dissatisfied with your church, especially if it is Calvinist, you might want to look at http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/abandon-ship!/
 
Vince Massi said:
If you are dissatisfied with your church, especially if it is Calvinist, you might want to look at http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/abandon-ship!/
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But, but I joined my church becyae it was Calvinistic.......
 
Recovering IFB said:
Vince Massi said:
If you are dissatisfied with your church, especially if it is Calvinist, you might want to look at http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/abandon-ship!/
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But, but I joined my church because it was Calvinistic.......
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We can still be friends.

If you think it through, you'll probably agree that there are a lot of differences within the same groups. I am still friends with the soul-winning Calvinist pastor of our Baptist church (He's in another church now). He did the church a lot of good and solved a lot of problems.

Humorous sidenote: He now pastors in the US, but he was a missionary to Mexico for a while. Twice, when he was in our area, the Assemblies of God church we attend had him speak, while the Baptist church would not.
 
Ransom said:
Hey, since Vince is frightened of questions, let's just add some more into the mix.

You start out this thread attempting to explain "how to deal with failed Christians." However,  you do not define what you mean by "failure." What is your definition of failure?
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Vince, as much as it pains me to side with Ransom, I must agree on these two points:

1.  You tend to not answer questions.

2.  Please define what you mean by "failure."
 
Good to hear from you, Dan.

I answer lots of questions. However, I do not read any of Ransom's posts.

I explained, more than once, that I am talking about failure in Christian service, not in a Christian's personal life. When a missionary sets goals, explains those goals, raises support money on behalf of those goals, he fails if he goes home empty-handed. It might not be his fault, but he failed.

When a Christian wants to succeed in God's work and produces no fruit, he has failed. I am showing why and how he failed, so that he can succeed.
 
Vince Massi said:
I am showing why and how he failed, so that he can succeed.
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You know I like you, Vince.  You and I go way back, and I would not want to be offensive.  But this statement of yours smacks so much of IFB arrogance.  "I can show you the error of your ways; and if you will follow me, you will be successful."  Your posts are so reminiscent of those who stood before us as though had arrived; and instructed us as though we were but mere children.  It is such a turn-off.

Perhaps you feel the same about my posts and comments.

Besides, really.  Showing someone how he fails automatically shows him how to succeed?  And who is to determine success?  You?

I can certainly see why you ignore Ransom.  He is such an arrogant buffoon.
 
Vince Massi said:
Folks, the more I think of this, the more convinced I am that some of you need to read that series on "Abandon Ship."
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That's that series about which you refuse to answer questions, right? I don't know why anyone should "need to" read it, when clearly you are incapable of defending it.
 
Dan, I have no problem at all with you disagreeing with me in a courteous manner.

God has called me to teach and given me ability as a teacher. If you'll follow this series patiently, I'll be able to show why Christians fail in their service.

As for the IFB leaders who led us, most of them DID know what they were doing. It was their corruption and hypocrisy that they kept secret that messed us up. Jim Vineyard practiced slander, but he DID now how to run a bus ministry. And he DID know how to teach. I still use some of his methods, and they work.
 
Vince Massi said:
As for the IFB leaders who led us, most of them DID know what they were doing. It was their corruption and hypocrisy that they kept secret that messed us up.
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"messed us up?"

Are you messed up, Vince?

Vince, let's be clear.  I got over HAC years ago.  If I got messed up, it was my own fault.  I can't justify my failings on someone else's actions.  Blaming someone else leads only to failure.
 
My buddy Route 70 got me into a secret FFF some time ago. The site consisted of little more than comments on the upcoming Presidential election. I posted a few political comments with no problems. Then I posted some help with spiritual problems and the scorners jumped in.

There just weren't that many people available. I finally explained that the scorners made intelligent discussion impossible, because if you tried to have one, you MUST be involved in a hate fest. I got three nasty replies, and then there was one new post in the next two weeks. They currently run five or six posts per month.

All of the FFFs are failing, and the admins don't understand why.

And now for a commercial: If you are dissatisfied with your church, especially if it is Calvinist, you might want to look at http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/abandon-ship!/
 
Vince Massi said:
All of the FFFs are failing, and the admins don't understand why.
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Such a nebulous term, "failure," when Vince uses it.

[list type=decimal]
[*]You start out this thread attempting to explain "how to deal with failed Christians." However,  you do not define what you mean by "failure." What is your definition of failure?
[*]Since you have claimed that the FFF is "failing," how does the definition in the previous question apply to the FFF?
[*]What makes you think that the owners/administrators/moderators of the FFF define success and failure in the same way?
[/list]

And now for a commercial: If you are dissatisfied with your church, especially if it is Calvinist, you might want to look at http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/abandon-ship!/
Click to expand...

And while you're looking at that thread, don't forget to ask Vince why he is such a failure when it comes to  answering questions. (And to define my terms, when I say Vince is a failure, I mean he has had ample opportunity to explain why  he abuses Scripture in such a fashion as he does in that thread, and yet has refused or is unable to provide said explanation when asked.)
 
Route_70 said:
Vince Massi said:
I am showing why and how he failed, so that he can succeed.
Click to expand...

You know I like you, Vince.  You and I go way back, and I would not want to be offensive.  But this statement of yours smacks so much of IFB arrogance.  "I can show you the error of your ways; and if you will follow me, you will be successful."  Your posts are so reminiscent of those who stood before us as though had arrived; and instructed us as though we were but mere children.  It is such a turn-off.
Click to expand...

Same could be said of his sister.
 
Got an oddity here, Folks. I accidentally found a HAC forum that is not FFF. They had about three posts in the previous month. I joined, posted, and had 63 hits in the next 24 hours. Most of it came from six or seven repeat posters. How could a site, this inactive, have suddenly become so alive? One explanation is that there are a lot of HAC alumni trying to deal with  spiritual problems.

Then a guy comes on, making off-color posts. Others explained to me that he often does this, and the admin will not ban him. If you want to have an intelligent conversation, it WILL include profanity. This cuts down participation, and apparently the admin doesn't believe it.
 
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