ICHABOD

[T-Bone]

God apparently has called out to you many times, as by your own estimation, you are the "Mr. Bible" of this site...if you spend eternity in hell, it wont be God's fault.

According to the Bible, Hell is temporary: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14).  So no matter what else the Bible teaches, eternity in hell is not one of them.  Apparently you could use some reading glasses.  I said nothing about an eternity in hell.  I referenced something about an eternity in a lake of fire:

It is more than I can say for God, who damns the likes me to an eternal lake of fire.

Evidence that I at least know something about the Bible ? and what you believe.

Once again not knowing the Scripture you are in err...you make a distinction about the eternity of hell, whether it is called the Lake of Fire or hell that the Scripture doesn't, as a matter of fact the verse you chose to use the translation is weak, as the word used there is Hades, not hell.  I will take the words of Jesus to bring clarity about the eternity of hell, rather than an atheist who lacks understanding of the Scripture.  Mark 9-

42 ?But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.  43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched?  44 where

?Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.?[d]

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched?  46 where

?Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched.?[e]

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire?  48 where

?Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.?[f]

 

[Route_70]

Once again not knowing the Scripture you are in err...you make a distinction about the eternity of hell, whether it is called the Lake of Fire or hell that the Scripture doesn't, as a matter of fact the verse you chose to use the translation is weak, as the word used there is Hades, not hell.  I will take the words of Jesus to bring clarity about the eternity of hell, rather than an atheist who lacks understanding of the Scripture.  Mark 9-

42 ?But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.  43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched?  44 where

?Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.?[d]

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched?  46 where

?Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched.?[e]

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire?  48 where

?Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.?[f]

In Mark, Jesus uses Isaiah 66 to describe the unquenchable flame of Gehenna.  In Luke 16, Jesus uses a rich man to describe the flame of Hades.  Besides the fact that you prefer the ESV, and I the KJV, what is the difference?

 

[redhead]

Wow- I've seen some pretty ugly Christianity in this thread: People who scorn someone who makes claims of abuse, sarcasm and belittling of a nonbeliever, defensiveness and anger when questioned about God and Hell. Is this how you "Christians" act in public and church, or are you this hateful because of the privacy provided through this forum?

I'm the first to admit I'm a weak Christian. I don't pray enough, witness enough, or even read my Bible when I know I should. So maybe I shouldn't say anything. But when I see hateful attitudes coming from Christians, it is discouraging. Is this what Christianity is about? I know this is the "fighting forum", but are there no personal boundaries you, as Chjristians, won't cross because they may offend the "weaker brother"?

 

[T-Bone]

Once again not knowing the Scripture you are in err...you make a distinction about the eternity of hell, whether it is called the Lake of Fire or hell that the Scripture doesn't, as a matter of fact the verse you chose to use the translation is weak, as the word used there is Hades, not hell.  I will take the words of Jesus to bring clarity about the eternity of hell, rather than an atheist who lacks understanding of the Scripture.  Mark 9-

42 ?But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.  43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched?  44 where

?Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.?[d]

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched?  46 where

?Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched.?[e]

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire?  48 where

?Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.?[f]

In Mark, Jesus uses Isaiah 66 to describe the unquenchable flame of Gehenna.  In Luke 16, Jesus uses a rich man to describe the flame of Hades.  Besides the fact that you prefer the ESV, and I the KJV, what is the difference?

First, you're wrong about me using the ESV...it is the NKJV.

They are different words, in Luke Jesus uses Hades to describe the place of the unrighteousness dead who are in torment awaiting the Great White Throne...in Mark, Jesus uses Gehenna, a literal valley where garbage was dumped and the fire continues to burn to describe what eternal hell is like...in Revelation, Hades gives up her dead to stand before the GWT, then death & hades are thrown into the lake of fire, eternal hell, where those who reject Christ spend eternity.  That's the simple answer, though I am sure it won't suffice and you will change my wording to satisfy yourself.

 

[T-Bone]

Wow- I've seen some pretty ugly Christianity in this thread: People who scorn someone who makes claims of abuse, sarcasm and belittling of a nonbeliever, defensiveness and anger when questioned about God and Hell. Is this how you "Christians" act in public and church, or are you this hateful because of the privacy provided through this forum?

I'm the first to admit I'm a weak Christian. I don't pray enough, witness enough, or even read my Bible when I know I should. So maybe I shouldn't say anything. But when I see hateful attitudes coming from Christians, it is discouraging. Is this what Christianity is about? I know this is the "fighting forum", but are there no personal boundaries you, as Chjristians, won't cross because they may offend the "weaker brother"?

Really, are you looking to be offended...do you need safe zone. No one is being abusive...both sides in this are being direct. Maybe you think contending for the faith is sitting around sing Cum-by-ya...your are not going to like it here if that's the case.

 

[Route_70]

They are different words, in Luke Jesus uses Hades to describe the place of the unrighteousness dead who are in torment awaiting the Great White Throne...in Mark, Jesus uses Gehenna, a literal valley where garbage was dumped and the fire continues to burn to describe what eternal hell is like...in Revelation, Hades gives up her dead to stand before the GWT, then death & hades are thrown into the lake of fire, eternal hell, where those who reject Christ spend eternity.  That's the simple answer, though I am sure it won't suffice and you will change my wording to satisfy yourself.

I am not arguing the meaning or significance of these words.  I am merely dispelling any notion that I am ignorant of the Bible.  I am also saying flatly that despite what the Bible says, I do not believe in any eternal punishment.

The Bible is a very interesting book; but it is a book written by men -- men who know nothing about what may or may not happen after death.

 

[Route_70]

Really, are you looking to be offended...do you need safe zone. No one is being abusive...both sides in this are being direct. Maybe you think contending for the faith is sitting around sing Cum-by-ya...your are not going to like it here if that's the case.

I agree with you here.  When I attack "Christians" per se, I am merely pointing out the salient fact that Christians can be unreasonable and insensitive -- just like non-Christians can be.  And there is plenty of unreasonableness and insensitivity displayed here by those who call themselves Christians.

 

[T-Bone]

They are different words, in Luke Jesus uses Hades to describe the place of the unrighteousness dead who are in torment awaiting the Great White Throne...in Mark, Jesus uses Gehenna, a literal valley where garbage was dumped and the fire continues to burn to describe what eternal hell is like...in Revelation, Hades gives up her dead to stand before the GWT, then death & hades are thrown into the lake of fire, eternal hell, where those who reject Christ spend eternity.  That's the simple answer, though I am sure it won't suffice and you will change my wording to satisfy yourself.

I am not arguing the meaning or significance of these words.  I am merely dispelling any notion that I am ignorant of the Bible.  I am also saying flatly that despite what the Bible says, I do not believe in any eternal punishment.

The Bible is a very interesting book; but it is a book written by men -- men who know nothing about what may or may not happen after death.

And I honestly do appreciate your honesty here...though clearly I disagree.  I believe the Bible was written by men inspired by God...there is no way you can believe that as you deny God's existence...so therefore though you can read the Bible & even deal with the grammar, history, and understand the cultural background and things such as that, you cannot understand the Bible, as it is spiritual discerned. So since we have no basis of agreement on a objective source of truth, to debate spiritual things with a spiritually dead person (not said to be offensive) is an act of futility.

 

[Route_70]

I honestly do appreciate your honesty here...though clearly I disagree.  I believe the Bible was written by men inspired by God...there is no way you can believe that as you deny God's existence...so therefore though you can read the Bible & even deal with the grammar, history, and understand the cultural background and things such as that, you cannot understand the Bible, as it is spiritual discerned. So since we have no basis of agreement on a objective source of truth, to debate spiritual things with a spiritually dead person (not said to be offensive) is an act of futility.

Then by your logic, it was futile for Jesus and Paul and Peter and all of the New Testament people to argue in the temples everywhere they went.  They would all reference the scriptures of their day in their arguments.

To say that I cannot understand means that no one who is not a believer can understand.  Then how are we to understand if you use the Bible to convince us?

To me that is a convenient cop-out.

 

[T-Bone]

I honestly do appreciate your honesty here...though clearly I disagree.  I believe the Bible was written by men inspired by God...there is no way you can believe that as you deny God's existence...so therefore though you can read the Bible & even deal with the grammar, history, and understand the cultural background and things such as that, you cannot understand the Bible, as it is spiritual discerned. So since we have no basis of agreement on a objective source of truth, to debate spiritual things with a spiritually dead person (not said to be offensive) is an act of futility.

Then by your logic, it was futile for Jesus and Paul and Peter and all of the New Testament people to argue in the temples everywhere they went.  They would all reference the scriptures of their day in their arguments.

To say that I cannot understand means that no one who is not a believer can understand.  Then how are we to understand if you use the Bible to convince us?

To me that is a convenient cop-out.

No cop out... What Jesus, Paul & Peter did was use what those people could understand in the natural world to share with them the Gospel. That's a whole other subject. They never discuss, debated or even inferred those who were lost could understand the spiritual things of God, until they were enlightened by the Holy Spirit, and brought from spiritual death unto spiritual life.  It was Paul who said that those who do not have the Spirit cannot understand the things of God, for they are spiritually discerned. So while we can discussed things from a limited basis of human understanding, we can never go deep into t he meaning of the Scripture because it is impossible for you to understand.

And as I said we can't really debate the things of God, which are given to us in the Scripture, because you are your own source of truth, whereas I hold the Bible as the objective source of truth. All you have to say is, "well I don't believe the Bible or in God, and it's over." For a proper debate, we have to have a starting place where we agree...we don't have that.

 

[Route_70]

we can discussed things from a limited basis of human understanding, we can never go deep into t he meaning of the Scripture because it is impossible for you to understand.

And as I said we can't really debate the things of God, which are given to us in the Scripture, because you are your own source of truth, whereas I hold the Bible as the objective source of truth. All you have to say is, "well I don't believe the Bible or in God, and it's over." For a proper debate, we have to have a starting place where we agree...we don't have that.

That is the position of the Catholic church.

 

[T-Bone]

we can discussed things from a limited basis of human understanding, we can never go deep into t he meaning of the Scripture because it is impossible for you to understand.

And as I said we can't really debate the things of God, which are given to us in the Scripture, because you are your own source of truth, whereas I hold the Bible as the objective source of truth. All you have to say is, "well I don't believe the Bible or in God, and it's over." For a proper debate, we have to have a starting place where we agree...we don't have that.

That is the position of the Catholic church.

If you say so...it is the biblical position nonetheless.

 

[Tim]

John 14:15-17 gives a gimps into what I believe to be the issue with non-believers reading & studying the Bible.

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Does the atheist love Jesus? Do they look to Jesus and admire him because he is infinitely admirable?

The gift to help you open your mind and heart to the glorious truth about Jesus is only for those who receive his son.

http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/if-anyone-loves-me-he-will-keep-my-word

 

[Jo]

Excellent point and so very true.

 

[Jo]

I'll give her full name when you share yours.

Well, it doesn't matter.  As I've said, I have taken advantage of so many women.  I don't recall all their names.

You do realize you're not exactly a ladies' man, don't you?  When you look in the mirror, do you see what others see or what you want to see?  I realize this post may contain too many questions for you.

Your words seem to indicate you're proud of the fact that you've taken advantage of so many women, or do you say those things strictly for "entertainment" value?

 

[sword]

I'll give her full name when you share yours.

Well, it doesn't matter.  As I've said, I have taken advantage of so many women.  I don't recall all their names.

You do realize you're not exactly a ladies' man, don't you?  When you look in the mirror, do you see what others see or what you want to see?  I realize this post may contain too many questions for you.
Your words seem to indicate you're proud of the fact that you've taken advantage of so many women, or do you say those things strictly for "entertainment" value?

Harsh,

Do you two know each other, ex's maybe?

 

[Jim Jones]

I'll give her full name when you share yours.

Well, it doesn't matter.  As I've said, I have taken advantage of so many women.  I don't recall all their names.

You do realize you're not exactly a ladies' man, don't you?  When you look in the mirror, do you see what others see or what you want to see?  I realize this post may contain too many questions for you.
Your words seem to indicate you're proud of the fact that you've taken advantage of so many women, or do you say those things strictly for "entertainment" value?

Harsh,

Do you two know each other, ex's maybe?

dt knows

 

[TheRealJonStewart]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ichabod/1665739933659661

Dude, this guy sucks at web design and Photoshop.

 

[Jim Jones]

He knows, Barry.

Thanks... Carry on

I just don't want private, non public details used as a hammer against another poster.

Noted for posterity.

Rt. 70 already outed himself by linking to Facebook quotes.


dt

 

[FSSL]

Rt. 70 already outed himself by linking to Facebook quotes.

You do not understand the law, etiquette and the rules that you agreed to abide by.